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 Ragnarok 26, War Council Minutes

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Aodhfin Dragonwalker
Aodhfin Dragonwalker

Posts : 930
Join date : 2009-08-04
Age : 31
Location : Tecumseh, OK

Ragnarok 26, War Council Minutes Empty
PostSubject: Ragnarok 26, War Council Minutes   Ragnarok 26, War Council Minutes Icon_minitimeTue Jun 21, 2011 10:36 am

This is RIDICULOUSLY large, so I'll summarize what passed first. Remember that rules changes require a 75% majority to pass: - All red and blue weapons except for flails must conform to the following - Minimum dimensions of 1.25 inch by 2.75 inches.

4.2.2 – Blue weapons must have a minimum total length of 12 inches and a maximum total length less than 48 inches. Weapons must have a minimum 6 inch striking surface

5.2.8 – Rigid metal hand, knee or elbow armor is forbidden (ring or chainmail is permitted)

4.7.13 – Shields may be covered in non-latex based soft plastic sealant (e.g. plasti-dip) as an alternative to cloth as long as they pass all other requirements.

Garb Rules:
1.3 - All participants are required to wear a costume ("garb") that meets or preferably exceeds minimum Dagorhir requirements as seen below. The intent of this rule is to maintain a non-obtrusive appearance appropriate to a fantasy/medieval setting at Dagorhir events. Garb is required on the battle field and is strongly encouraged when in public areas. How a player dresses while in a private camp is not regulated by these rules; however garb at all times is strongly encouraged. The event staff reserves the right to make certain areas, functions, gatherings, or the entire event garb required. Proper garb not only benefits the player, but enhances the experience of other players and improves the overall atmosphere of the event.

1.3.1 - A tunic, shirt, dress, or vest of crotch length or longer. Bare chest is acceptable if allowed by law and or camp/event rules, but only if the rest of the costume meets or exceeds minimum garb standards. Clarification: Obviously modern clothing such as sweat-pants, pajama pants, modern skirts, etc is not acceptable.

1.3.2 – Non-obtrusive pants, kilt, skirt, leggings, or similar leg ware. Bare legs are acceptable.

1.3.3 – Non-obtrusive footwear (moccasins, earth-tone shoes, boots, sandals, etc.). Bare feet are acceptable if allowed by the event rules.

1.4 - Forbidden Garments, Patterns/Logos, and Equipment: The intent of this rule is to limit the amount of obviously modern looking items at the event. It is sometimes possible to wear modern clothing in a way (by modification or concealment for example) that it is not considered forbidden. A herald or member of the event staff will make final decisions on this.

1.4.1 - Forbidden garments include but are not limited to: blue jeans, white shoes, camouflage patterns such as military fatigues, visible T-shirts or other obviously modern clothing, and modern hats.

1.4.2 - Real swords, knives, or weapons of any sort (even in sheaths or cases) may not be worn or carried during Dagorhir combat.

1.4.3 - Weapons, shields, garb, and armor may not have clearly mundane logos or prints, nor may be made with fluorescent/neon colors.

1.4.4 - Cleats and spikes are not permitted on the battlefield.

1.4.5 – The event staff reserves the right to allow certain forbidden garments to accommodate special needs, because of weather conditions, etc. These exceptions will be made on a case by case basis. Players are encouraged to overcome this with proper garb when it is possible.

1.5-If non-Dagorhir spectators, parental guardians, service staff, or similar bystanders are present at an event, the event staff determines if they are required to wear garb. This is handled on a case by case basis.

Ragnarok Section Head Requirements and Dagorhir Ragnarok Corp White Sheet can be made available to any chapter rep who wants it by emailing me at

<Those are ALL of the motions and rules changes which passed. Find complete minutes below.>

Ragnarok XXVI War Council Minutes
June 13th, 2011
Chapters in attendance: Aratari, Albion, High Spires, Eryndor, Greyglades, Lostwithiel, Outlands, Byzantium, Einherjar, Aggelgorod, Winterfell, Tartarus Invictus, Anvard, Ravenwood, Lyonesse, Jade Isles, Mordor, Sage Hill, Galladorn, Angaron, Osgiliath, Nova Antiqui, Realm of Chaos, Pointed Heart, K’lar, Wildwood, Kingdom of Akron, De’Troit, Fiat Lux, Dominion, Mallenorod, Taurendor

Dominus calls to order at 6:18PM. By-laws given, introductions started.

Aggelgorod proposes gauntlet rule change on 5.2.8. Current rule states: Rigid metal knee or elbow armor is forbidden (ring or chainmail is permitted).
Proposed immediate rule change 5.2.8 (safety issue, effective immediately) – Rigid metal gauntlets, knee or elbow armor is forbidden (ring or chainmail is permitted).

Aggelgorod adds 18 gauge clarification on plate mail (18 gauge plate mail is not allowed)

Aggelgorod yields floor to Tannhauser – 2 proposals
1) Section head requirement update
2) Dagorhir Ragnarok Corporate (separate non-profit organization to be established)

Einherjar brings up safety issue of 2.5” club passing

Aggelgorod (second rep) proposes that 5.2.5 be modified from 1/8” to 18 gauge

Tartarus Invictus proposal – Garb Rules Update proposed, changing the pictures in the MOA for garb examples.

Ravenwood – Ravenwood would like to see an arrow head color clarification that arrows cannot have yellow heads

Jade Isles – 5.4.14 should be changed about the ½” protrusions rule, as it seems obsolete on helmets. Possible rule removal required. Extensive discussion follows on whether or not this is a safety issue on helmets, and how it should be enforced.

Angaron – 5 separate rules proposals / clarifications
1) Replace with new “ – All blue weapons must conform to the following:” then “ – Clubs must be built 3 inches across the diameter”
2) Modified – This does not require red shots to be called as “red!” for them to count as a red shot
3) Replace 4.2.2 with new “4.2.2 – Blue weapons must have a minimum total length of 16 inches and a maximum total length less than 48 inches”
4) New 4.8.6 – Bashes and checks may be legally made with the front or edges of a shield
5) Current 4.7.4 replaced with
a. A shield may not be taller than ankle to collarbone nor wider than 3 feet
b. 4.7.4 – A shield may not be taller than the distance between the wielder’s chin and their ankles, nor wider than 3 feet measured across the arc.
c. Combined – 4.7.4 A shield may not be taller than ankle to collarbone nor wider than 3 feet, both measured across the arc.

Nova Antiqui – plasti-dip shield rule addition 4.7.13 – Shields may be covered in plasti-dip as an alternative to cloth as long as they pass all other requirements.
This has been playtested extensively and has had no related injuries.

Angaron – proposed new position of ‘head armor checker’ separate from head weapons checker. Tannhauser accepts a friendly amendment to the existing Ragnarok Section Head Requirements proposal that the head weapons checker should delegate a ‘head armor checker’ position.

Aratari – has concerns that somebody has hijacked the Dagorhir MOA. Too many revisions which were passed are not present, and lots of revisions are present that were never voted on. Concerned that our ruleset is not properly presented. Resolution proposed that ONE person have access to MOA creation.

Prioritizing topics of conversation:
First order of business: Fixed metal rules / MOA rule set currently in place on the website
Metal gauntlets will be discussed immediately as a point of safety
Arrowhead colors clarified – 2
½” helmet protrusion clarification – 5
Tartarus Invictus Garb Proposal – 27
Angaron Rule proposals (all 5) – 29
Plastidip shields – 25
Ragnarok proposals - 27

Metal gauntlets discussion – gauntlets should have always been restricted. Clarification that this ONLY applies to rigid metal plate. For this Ragnarok, we agree that no plate metal can be worn on the hands. Approved by acclaim.

Wording change is desired to change gauntlets to hands. New proposal 5.2.8 – Rigid metal hand, knee or elbow armor is forbidden (ring or chainmail is permitted). All others for, 4 against.

General site announcements given

June 16th, 2011
Chapters in attendance: <did not receive the chapter sign in sheets>

Arrowhead colors proposal withdrawn by Ravenwood

Metal rules from previous Ragnaroks need to be added to the MOA. These have been confirmed to previously have been approved in prior RWC’s, and the MOA needs to be updated with them as soon as possible.

Angaron Rule Proposals
1) Einherjar proposes change that “All weapons except flails” but then it is suggested to be “ - All red and blue weapons except for flails must conform to the following” Vote taken. Passes, 36 for, 4 against.
a. Now discussion of Current MOA now states that weapons must have minimum dimensions of 1.25” x 3”. Einherjar would like to change to update minimum dimensions to 1.25” x 2.75”. Adding an additional rule about clubs is redundant. Vote taken to modify, Passes with 28 for, 9 against.
2) Discussion opens on taking red shots even if not called red would slow the game down, problems seeing if sword is blue or red (meeting min length). Commentary made about the original 4.1.12, then motion to vote was made. 21 for, 14 against. Fails to meet the 75% support necessary.
3) Einherjar proposes amendment to add a 6” minimum striking surface, except on swords which have 12” minimum striking surface. Another friendly amendment is proposed dropping minimum blue length to 12 inches and setting a fixed minimum striking surface at 6 inches. Jari accepts the friendly amendments giving “4.2.2 – Blue weapons must have a minimum total length of 12 inches and a maximum total length less than 48 inches. Weapons must have a minimum 6 inch striking surface”. Vote called – 29 for, 7 against. Passes.
4) Discussion on unsafe shield usage. Friendly amendment proposed but not accepted. Vote taken, 20 in favor, 18 against, fails.
5) Shield rules:
a. Discussion on how this makes the game better, said that it will open more shots. Friendly amendments proposed and accepted, changed to”4.7.4 – A shield may not be taller than the wielder’s ankle to top of shoulder nor wider than 3 feet.” Vote taken, 14 for, 21 against. Fails.
b. Einherjar friendly amends to ‘nor wider than 3 feet across at its widest point, and a curved shield may have a curvature no more than 180 degrees.’ Vote taken, 24 for, 15 against. Fails.

7:27 Tartarus Invictus Garb proposal discussed next. Proposal is read. Einherjar asks to add ‘non-obtrusive to a fantasy event’. Friendly amendment accepted. Aratari proposes simple change that 1.3.1 clarification includes the words ‘Obviously modern clothing’. EXTENSIVE discussion ensues on the context and ways of enforcing garb. Friendly amendment is accepted on 1.4.4 removing “any other shoe” wording. Vote is called. 36 for, 3 opposed.

Ragnarok Section Head Requirement
Tannhauser asks for any questions/clarifications of the first page of proposal
New to Dag fighting – changing required to recommended.
Motion to Vote and seconded. 34 in favor. One against

Ragnarok 27 Improvements
Suggestions to next Event Coordinator to make Rag better (non-voting issue)
Next year, set two pre-registration options: Saturday arrival at $60, and Sunday arrival at $50 (Minors at $35/$30). The only people able to arrive on Saturday are those who pre-registered to do so, without exception. This requires many event staff to show up Friday, and volunteers for Troll and Security all day Saturday.

Leftover monies (above and beyond the required carry-over) are STRONGLY suggested to be used for permanent on-site storage (#1 priority) and improvements for battles / spectators.

Personal motorized vehicles should be outright banned. (Clarification: this does not include medical equipment)

<Personal note: Since I was elected Event Coordinator again, these improvements will be put into place>

Rag Dag Corp Proposal
Erekose-We want to work together with the current Rag staff to make sure this is a DGBA sponsored event to ensure protection for both organizations (Ragnarok and Dagorhir). The Rag Corp will be a sub-organization of Dagorhir.
Tannhauser- Explains that it is a business proposal (white sheet) and that if it is voted through, members of the DGBA and Ragnarok staff will work towards making the proposal into the paperwork for a corporation
Motion to vote and seconded. Unanimously approved.

Plasti-dip shield proposal
Friendly amendment given to say 4.7.13 – Shields may be covered in non-latex based soft plastic sealant (e.g. plasti-dip) as an alternative to cloth as long as they pass all other requirements.
Einherjar proposes tabling to next year, no second. Discussion on play-testing occurs. Question is called and seconded. 37 for, 4 against. Passes.

8:06PM – ½” helmet protrusion rule defined. Friendly amendment proposed – “modify rule 5.1.15 to remove “must have no spikes or points and”.
Motion to table 17 for, 20 against.
Friendly amendment newly accepted that makes new rules read:
5.1.14 – Rigid body armor including helmets must not have projections which protrude more than ½ inch from the armor through a two inch diameter hole.
5.1.15 – Rigid armor including helmets must have no spikes and must have blunted edges.
Move to reconsider the motion to table – 23 for, 12 against (fails again)
Vote is called – 17 for, 20 against. Motion fails.

Ragnarok XXVII information
Cooper’s Lake is free June 17th-24th,2012 and will give us the same prices. Motion passes.
Event Coordinator: Tannhauser nominated and affirmed
Treasurer: Devaryn nominated and affirmed
Accountant: Dominus nominated and affirmed
Shadow: Brutus nominated and affirmed
Day Events: Ducky McFeelgood nominated, Malice of Aratari nominated, 20 for Ducky, 16 for Malice
Night Events: Twinkle nominated and affirmed
Weapons Check: Blackhawk nominated and affirmed
Medic: Rain nominated and affirmed
Security: Askarus nominated and affirmed
Troll: Galadriel nominated and affirmed
RWC Chair: Dominus nominated, Zagar nominated, 16 for Dominus, 18 for Zagar.
RWC Secretary: Tannhauser nominated and affirmed


I will format all of this later, but wanted to get it up ASAP for all those people worried about what passed / didn't pass.

This war council ran EXTREMELY long and could have been shortened by some simple diligence and understanding on the parts of the council representatives. If this was your first war council, please know that they are NOT usually like this, and this is by far the longest and least organized council in probably a decade. It is the responsibility of chapter representatives to read and understand what you are voting on PRIOR TO showing up for Thursday's voting meeting. If you did not attend Monday to listen to all the proposals presented and receive your copy of them, and were not able to study somebody else's copy, its probably best if you do not represent your chapter on those issues when Thursday comes around.

Also, please respect your fellow delegates. When people with 10-20 years of experience explain why some rules are the way they are, and how they are enforced, please try and go with that enforcement in your local chapter for a while before trying to rewrite the rule. If you have managed to be in a chapter leadership position with under a year's experience, please try and remember that your experience in Dagorhir so far may not be indicative of what happens regularly across the country. Finally, most of all, please listen to and respect the RWC Chair and Secretary and listen to their explanations. Rule Zero supersedes ALL other rules. It exists so that we do not need 45 minutes of discussion to closed perceived loopholes.
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