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 Greetings.

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Judgement

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PostSubject: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:46 pm

I am Kaimetsuo. You may call me Kai. I am a weretiger. Don't piss me off.

And on the brighter side of things, I am a foamsmith, meaning that if people are looking to have weapons and armor built that would work for this type of environment, look me up. As it is, I will be attending a class in November to learn how to make prop-quality foam weapons that will be Dag legal.

-Kai
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Aodhfin Dragonwalker
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:51 pm

Welcome Kai! I'm Aodhfin, leader of the Dragonknights of Midgar and president of Midgar. It's good to have a talented foamsmith here on the forums.....and it's always good to have a weretiger around. Twisted Evil
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Judgement

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PostSubject: Good to see you.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:54 pm

It is good to feel needed. Long has it been since I have felt the need to stay in one place. If you will have me, I will stay here.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:58 pm

Brother, I speak for Midgar when I say that you can stay as long as you like, for you are welcome and wanted.


On the less formal hand, if you would like to become a realm member, visit the General Discussion area and post in the Realm Members topic. It's easier for me to keep track of things that way. Wink
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Judgement

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PostSubject: Good.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:05 pm

Then I will stay...although calling me "brother" may be a bit...*sniff*...strange...

I have others that will join me. I take it that they too may join you once you have inspected them for flaws? I understand the need to make the pride stronger.
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Aodhfin Dragonwalker
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:12 pm

You are right in your thinking Kai. They may make Midgar their home as well, if it is their desire to do so.
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Kurai
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:13 pm

Before we go around assuming you're a dude, is you a guy or is you a goil?

Also, welcome to the group. Have to say about your intro though, foamsmith doesn't exactly scream armorer in my mind. Then again, your mind is different than mine and thus inherently wrong.


Hi, I'm Kurai, I'll be the local lovable pain in the ass.




And oh yeah, another Kai, like Dag needs another one of those, lol.
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PostSubject: Foam is a wonderful thing.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:19 pm

Actually, you can make armor out of the blue camp pad closed cell foam, I have already made a chest and shoulderguard and they look pretty good and deaden any really hard hits. I will see if I can find a picture and show you.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:20 pm

Unfortunately, that won't pass as armor at practices or events......only leather, chain, and plate. Trust me, it sucks, I know. Cuz the foam would make things so much easier and less expensive, if you do it right. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:36 pm

kaimetsuo wrote:
Actually, you can make armor out of the blue camp pad closed cell foam, I have already made a chest and shoulderguard and they look pretty good and deaden any really hard hits. I will see if I can find a picture and show you.

I was afraid this was what you meant. Aodhfin's right, it wont pass. Not even as garb. If it looks like armor and is worn like armor then it needs to be armor. Otherwise the confusion is too much. If you wanted to make something like that and then wear it around outside of battles I'm sure it would be perfect. But as far as in battle, it's a no go. If you're willing to, I'd like to see some pictures of your stuff anyways. I've seen some amazing looking foam armor before, so I know it can look really good.
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PostSubject: Pictures.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:57 pm

Here are some pictures. The closed cell foam is on the inside along with a vinyl overlay to harden the outer striking surface. I have worn this to the Norman Ren Faire and it was approved by the Dag people there.





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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:18 pm

It's made from closed cell and vinyl, right? And the closed cell is inside the vinyl?

Neither of these is considered a legal armor making material. It looks amazing, but even so it wont pass if people know what it's made out of.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:21 pm

That is absolutely BEAUTIFUL. Hey Kai, I'm hoping to get at least one side of leather by next spring, before Christmas if I'm lucky. Think we could remake this so that way you can have this armor legal and ready for battle? We could even get a helm out of it for you if we're lucky and you want to.


Last edited by Aodhfin Dragonwalker on Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Explanation   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:24 pm

Only the inside padding has the foam and vinyl. The outside is from a leather couch cover material that is then "whip-stitched" around the outside to form a leather cover for a durable plate-like inner core. And as I have said, it was previously approved by the Dag people at the Norman Ren Faire having had what it was made out of explained to them. I even had a couple people ask me if I could make them some.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:31 pm

Oh, it DOES have leather on the outside? How thick? If it's at least 3/16 inch thick (the leather) than it is in fact legal.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:32 pm

kaimetsuo wrote:
Only the inside padding has the foam and vinyl. The outside is from a leather couch cover material that is then "whip-stitched" around the outside to form a leather cover for a durable plate-like inner core. And as I have said, it was previously approved by the Dag people at the Norman Ren Faire having had what it was made out of explained to them. I even had a couple people ask me if I could make them some.

It may have been approved by dag people in Norman at the ren faire, but that doesn't mean much. I'm not an expert myself on this kind of thing, so I guess I'll go to the oh so use(ful/less) national boards.
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PostSubject: Leather   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:40 pm

The leather is approx 2/16th's thick. With the layers of vinyl and padding and a second layer of the leather, the overall thickness of the armor at it's thinnest point is 1/2" thick or more, well within the 3/16th's thickness for leather armor required for Dag.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:42 pm

kaimetsuo wrote:
The leather is approx 2/16th's thick. With the layers of vinyl and padding and a second layer of the leather, the overall thickness of the armor at it's thinnest point is 1/2" thick or more, well within the 3/16th's thickness for leather armor required for Dag.

I'm pretty sure that simply refers to having a single piece or a directly layered piece of leather meeting that requirement.
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PostSubject: Dag rules that I got off the national site.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:43 pm

5.3. Leather armor:

5.3.1. The minimum thickness for leather armor is 3/16 inch. The minimum thickness requirement can be achieved by layering several pieces of thin leather.

This should mean, as I am understanding it, that the overall thickness for the armor is at least 3/16 inch.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:44 pm

5.4. Armor may not be constructed of plastic or other non-period materials.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:46 pm

Hmmmmm.....I know that the entire thickness is well within, but the leather itself I think is supposed to be at least 3/16 inch.....

I'll ask around just to make sure, but I believe that the leather itself needs to be at least that thickness. I'll be willing to help out if all you need is an extra 1/16th of leather, if that is the case, and if you would like help.

Crap. I forgot about rule 5.4......that is true, we can't use foam or vinyl or anything like that.....the leather you used is fine by itself (considering it's leather, I mean, leather is leather), but there is that rule......*sigh* I can still help if you want. I just want to make sure that everyone is having fun and playing by the rules. I don't want to rule sling like the Alterrans or some of the people on the main boards.
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:49 pm

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just trying to make sure that you understand that if you take it to an event it wont pass. Didn't want that to be an unpleasant surprise for you.
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PostSubject: Defeated.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:54 pm

While I can understand rules, and wanting to make sure that people are safe, and making sure that the appearence is accurate, etc. Trying to home make a leather breastplate and guards is expensive, and I know this because I worked in a leather shop for 3 years, and I can attest to this particular armor holding up to any standards for someone striking me with a foam sword. Now if someone has a problem with it, then I can take it off and beat them up just fine without it. However, I would like to say that something got lost in translation with the creation of armor, in my opinion. And my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it...lol.


Last edited by kaimetsuo on Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:03 pm

Ok, guys, this has turned from greeting to decidedly NOT. Both of you have good points, and I'd like to say right now (again) that no one is trying to prevent anyone from having fun or anything. Yes, following the rules for safety and playability is key, as everyone keeps saying Safety>Playability>Realism. In Midgar we want to strive for a melding of each of those three, and that means we WON'T be the bickering LARPers running around with giant pillows for shield (like Alexander did) and unrealistically weighted weapons. And Kai, I can personally attest to your skill with weapons, since I fought you on Sunday. Personally, I'm fine with you using the armor at practice, but I can't count it as an extra hit (though I'll still hit you a few extra times cuz it's fun. Admit it, you like getting attacked as much as attacking Razz ) like it was legal armor. Also, for events, you CAN wear it as garb or walking around or whatever. But it won't pass as armor in it's CURRENT life. However, as I said, I'm willing to help fix that and make it COMPLETELY Dagorhir event legal, so that way you can use it wherever and not have to worry about it, since those are the current rules. I have no doubt that the armor can take the hits intended for it, and I think that your right about new techniques and materials should be at least considered to allow more people to affordably enjoy armor and the game itself. However, for now, I hope you can accept my offer to help you make it event legal as soon as I can get the leather.



Oh, and Kurai isn't one of the ones who uses pillows and uberlight weapons. He uses a longsword and a REALLY tiny punch shield.....however, I can definitely point you at Alexander or Macabre or Metelo or Ophmeus or....well, you get the picture. I think Midgar's motto should be "We'll kill anyone for a price. But Alterra? We'll massacre for free."
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PostSubject: Re: Greetings.   Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:19 pm

Okay, so general consensus from the national boards is that it is NOT legal. However, they do think it looks awesome.

What I'm seeing most is that the leather itself has to be at least 3/16" on it's own, or layered. I know You've got two pieces of leather on there, but unless one face directly equals 3/16 or more then it's no good.
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