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 Making Dagorhir Realistic

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Aodhfin Dragonwalker
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PostSubject: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:14 am

I found this on the main Dag forums, and quite honestly, I agree with a lot the people are saying.

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=15542.0;topicseen


I don't want to make this like the SCA, cuz we're not. We're Dagorhir. However, there are a lot of things that we can do differently. For example, instead of just rushing straight into a fight, using tactics to our advantage. There's a reason that kings and warlords had battle strategies, advisors, generals, military ranks, and those little paper maps with tiny figurines. No, they weren't playing chess (though they did that too) or playing a primitive form of DnD (though it sure looks like it), but instead planning possible battle scenarios and planning how to best use their resources and keep their men alive.
Another way we could increase the realism is to not use itty bitty ultralight weapons that swing faster than a dog can hump. Yes, I realize that some might point fingers at me cuz I currently use two tiny maces, but they aren't ultralight by far. Hells, my maces are above the minimum for swords. I don't have a problem with realistic looking ultralights, or daggers, or anything like that. I do have a problem with speedbats, or weapons that are so light the wind can blow them away. It just doesn't feel right.
On to the next topic, and probably the hardest: wrap shots and tapping. I'm guilty of it, we all are or have been at one point or another. If you read a book about war techniques, or watch/read the Lord of the Rings, how many wrap shots do you see or read about? Now how many slashes, stabs, slams, grapples, and the like are there? I've been told by many that wrap shots can dominate the field, and I've seen it done. But at the same time, I can't help but wonder, "Why are we a medieval/fantasy full contact sport if everyone just wants to hit as fast as possible? Why talk about medieval anything if we don't fight that way?" I'm not putting down wrap shots, I'm just wondering if we can start to focus, as a realm, on techniques that have historical or even fantasy background. I haven't even seen a wrap shot in anime. Trust me on this.
There is so much we could do to promote Dagorhir and make others look at us as something more than a bunch of weirdos with funky uniforms. Realistic armor, garb, weapons, tactics, and techniques.

And now, I ask for your thoughts, your opinions, or even cussing me out for sounding stupid. lol!
I'm waiting. Twisted Evil
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Ansgeirr

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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:08 pm

tactics agreed, last night at fighter practice, our team got eaten up cuz we broke up and the other team would swarm one fighter after another.

Edit:
The main wrap shot in which you aim for the person's back (shield side) is half realistic. In real life it was used against the back of the neck which wasnt nearly as armored as the rest of the body, and you could paralyze your foe.

also this:
Aodhfin Dragonwalker wrote:
Another way we could increase the realism is to not use itty bitty ultralight weapons that swing faster than a dog can hump.
made me laugh my ass off


Last edited by Ansgeirr on Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kurai
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:12 pm

I'll just say this about some of my experience with wraps: if you do 'em right, they are gonna hit hard and be just as noticeable as a power shot to your arm or leg. Aodhfin, you've fought Eldrin, the man wraps so hard he makes people cringe. Army of Mordor guys (the higher ups, not necessarily me) can throw a shot with more power than you would think possible for how they swing.

Wrap shots are a natural evolution of combat in this game. Because of certain practices and habits in fighters wrap shots have appeared to be the counter to overlarge shields and various other flurbs that our rules allow because otherwise there is little to no way to get around that shield. (Yes, there is footwork, but most of us don't have that. Work for it, yes. But most of us have shitty and little to no footwork)

Now, light weapons: 12 oz. was the proposed minimum and it passed. This has been around longer than a lot of people have been in dag. 12 oz. is the minimum, not below it. 12.oz is legal. It is acceptable. Some people may feel that it is not acceptable. I say, if that's how you feel, come up with a petition to change the rules at War Council. It's not cheesy, it's within the rules. It's a stretch, but it's how it is.

And if you guys are wanting to go with more realistic fighting, then I'll expect to see some proper fencing forms and styles next time I'm out. And I'll bring my longsword so I can show you some German Longsword fighting.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:24 pm

Glad to make you laugh Ahnz. Kurai, I was waiting for you to jump into this post blade first. Very Happy

I am not at all dissing wrap shots, and I know that when used properly the do in fact represent the evolution of Dagorhir and medieval combat as a whole. I'm more talking about others solely focusing on it as a way of dominating the field. I would really like to see some actual swordplay, being able to parry and block and lock attacks, even wrap shots.
As for the weight, I was actually talking more along the lines of barely legal weapons. Your light sword does not fall into this category.
Basically, I would love to have swordfights, battles, tactics, techniques, everything possible, at the Midgar practices. I really do. There are a lot of fighters out there that, noobish or not, care more about the kill then the fight.
Personally, from fighting with you guys before, I don't think any of us care more about the kill than the fight, and I wanna keep it that way. It's so much more fun. Very Happy
That being said, I challenge Kurai to teach us with that German Longsword of his. Twisted Evil
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Kurai
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:32 pm

Actually, I gave that light sword away. Wink So I wouldn't be tempted by it. And I understand where you are coming from, I was simply illustrating a separate point. I do however, wholeheartedly agree with you about the guys who use only wrap shots to dominate. That shit's annoying and shows only that you've perfected your wrist flick, not any type of actually combat skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm

You gave it away? WOW. Didn't see that coming.....And I understand the point that you were making, hence why I tried to make my end a little more understandable and less b****y. I didn't want to start sounding like the guys on the main Dag boards, ya know? lol!

So, are you going to be able to come on Sunday?
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm

Drew pisses me off, he's a great fighter, and he can pwn life, but it's always that damn sky hook
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Aodhfin Dragonwalker
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:47 pm

Now Ahnz, if you wanna start a thread in off-topic about hating Drew's sky hook or what not, go right ahead. But here's where we all act like big boys and discuss how to better ourselves and tear guys like Drew apart. Twisted Evil lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:51 pm

Ansgeirr wrote:
Drew pisses me off, he's a great fighter, and he can pwn life, but it's always that damn sky hook

Block the sky hook and shoulder check him into the dirt. Beat mercilessly till he stops moving. Lather, rinse, repeat.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:52 pm

OH SHIZ! SCORE! See, now we just have to work on it in practice. Should takedowns be part of our tactics to practice?
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:03 pm

You need to be comfortable using whatever you have at your disposal, that includes your body.
Pinning the opponent, grappling, knocking them over and kicking, all that is free play. Grab someones shield and pull it out of their hands, grapple the handle of a weapon, throw yourself onto an opponent and hold them for your team to kill. Use it all.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:10 pm

Then we need to work on this kind of stuff. Big time. I'm going to try and have more than just battles for everyone this Sunday. pirat
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:34 pm

Aodhfin Dragonwalker wrote:
You gave it away? WOW. Didn't see that coming.....?

Wait, what? Why not?
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:00 pm

I'm not sure but i think that 5' somthing cleavers are not realistic :p
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:32 pm

But lets not forget that some cultures didn't value tactics except a shield wall the urk kuldars team grapple at rag is a good example I mean I love tactics but when i fight like hogarth it's mainly a berserker or distract with bloodshed and yells.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:29 pm

Berserkers don't usually start out berserking, do they? I honestly wanna know, cuz I've never berseked before, and it sounds like fun to be honest. True, some cultures valued shield walls, shows of force, and brute strength over tactics. But that's what we have the Dag Romans for. Razz
Distactions are tactics. Anything that throws an opponent off his/her game and opens them up for you is a tactic. Blow em a kiss, moon em, whatever, I really don't care (ok, so don't strip or moon, cuz that's against the rules), but distraction is a great tactic. Just ask Kurai.


Kurai: Hey, Orrin None-son says hi. *swings sword*
Jari: What? Really? *dies*

See? Distraction.

And Tyr, if you start nit-picking what I say, I'm going to shove a 5' cleaver somewhere you don't want it. lol!

Fantasy weapons are part of Dag. We can still be realistic with fantasy weapons, and you know it.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:44 pm

Vikings always stood solid in shield walls for they normaly learned from romans but yeah I love to berserk and normaly the berserkers are the ones who never like shield walls or convetional weaons so reds and singles with grapples its why I am hogarthj the weapon taker and not shieldwall jackson but I am for more realistic fights since I grew up on fantasy and myths Never used fail or wrap shot but yeah love to yell RUS and charge and people are like huh and it leads to a flank but normaly just a cog I can lead but choose not to.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:49 pm

Ah, so you could be compared to the guy in King Arthur who always yells RUS and is psycho. Twisted Evil
Love it.
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Hogarth

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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:55 pm

Oh yeah you got to be psycho to make it without armor or shield also no regard for your life I mean face it you die it's valhalla where everthing is a stabby.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:59 pm

I do believe that your going to be a good influence on me Hogarth. Very Happy
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Hogarth

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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:02 pm

I think this place is my home and am proud to be midgar.and glad to be a boon not a weakness.
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:42 pm

A) i'm always crazy B) jump on shield walls c) my swords stays in my possesion, no you may not have it though it is awsome
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:58 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCqQoStjBdo

Five mins BH epic death but I like to see more dag like this
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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:11 pm

That was amazing. Very Happy
That's the kind of energy and fighting I want to have at the practices and battles in Midgar.
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Hogarth

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PostSubject: Re: Making Dagorhir Realistic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:35 pm

I knew there was a reason...awesome I mean if midgars like this then we can have awesome dag events I really also like the old school one event four hour thing with a real valhalla seems like event worthy things maybe a midgar day event?
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